8/20/26

What Is Schism? Are You More Schismatic Than You Think?

Redeemed Zoomer, Doug Wilson, and the Protestant Problem of Church Unity

Protestants have heard the charge for centuries: You’re schismatics. You divided the Church.

And sometimes, Protestants make that accusation pretty easy to believe.

Churches split over personalities. Christians build factions around favorite pastors. Secondary disagreements become tests of faithfulness. A man gets offended, gathers a few followers, walks out the door, and calls it courage.

But leaving a church does not automatically make a man schismatic. A man can stay in the same church for twenty years while undermining his elders, gathering a faction, reviving old controversies, and poisoning brothers against one another. He never leaves the institution, but he may be the biggest schismatic in the room.

So what actually is schism?

In this episode, Pastor Joseph Spurgeon and Zach Krugler use the recent debate between Redeemed Zoomer and Doug Wilson as a starting point for a much older Protestant question: What constitutes genuine Christian unity, and when is separation from a church or denomination justified?

We examine the Westminster Confession’s doctrine of the visible catholic Church and turn to Reformation theologian Peter Martyr Vermigli for a careful definition of schism. His argument cuts both ways. Christians cannot treat churches like voluntary clubs, but neither does an old institution possess an unconditional claim upon the Christian conscience simply because it got there first.

Sometimes separation is sinful. Sometimes separation is necessary. And sometimes the man loudly condemning everyone else as schismatic needs to take a hard look in the mirror.

CHAPTERS

00:00 What Is Schism?

02:33 Ephesians 4 and the Unity of the Church

03:18 Sandwiches, Wives, and the Keto King

04:59 Redeemed Zoomer vs. Doug Wilson

07:31 Is Starting a New Denomination Schismatic?

09:45 Two Competing Definitions of Schism

11:25 The Real Problem With Church Shopping

14:26 Does Institutional Unity Matter?

16:31 Why Not Just Return to Rome?

18:57 What Is the One Catholic Church?

24:07 Westminster on the Visible Church

27:16 Can an Old Church Become Corrupt?

28:40 Peter Martyr Vermigli on Schism

32:33 Doctrine, Morality, and Church Unity

34:23 The Heart of Schism

37:00 Dividing Over Words, Labels, and Theological Tribes

38:05 Dividing Over Favorite Pastors and Leaders

40:02 Can You Be Schismatic Without Leaving?

41:19 When Separation Becomes Necessary

44:22 How Do We Know When It Is Time to Leave?

45:00 When Remaining in a Church Becomes Sinful

48:00 Reform, Correction, and Lawful Authority

51:00 Are You Seeking Correction or Building a Faction?

54:00 How to Leave a Church Without Becoming Schismatic

57:00 Can a Denomination Have a Schismatic Beginning?

59:00 Unity Without Uniformity

1:01:00 Guard Your Own Heart Against Schism

About the Show

The Patriarchy Podcast features in-depth conversations on faith, culture, theology, and leadership. Each episode equips Christians to live boldly and biblically in an age of compromise—exploring the challenges and opportunities of standing firm for truth in the modern world.

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